Screen mirroring on Max2? (And eventually portably Note)

[franzli]

I haven't seen this question addressed, so in going to go ahead and ask myself. Could anyone who has already got a Max2 test of screen mirroring (aka miracast) works with the device, eg if you have a smart TV with that feature or one of these miracast sticks?

This could be potentially very useful in a classroom context when instead of drawing on a messy chalk board you draw on the device in an app like, eg squib, and get to keep everything that's been drawn already and it's protected for the whole group to see and discuss.

Chromecast compatibility might also be interesting, but I don't quite see that working as flexibly in a university context, as you can't just set up a dongle on the fly, but have to first consider whether there's WiFi available which then needs to be set up etc.

Any comments and tests on this issue would be very welcome!

[franzli]

Really, no one interested in this?

Just noticed that it night have been better to put Miracast or Chromecast into the title, people might think this is just another thread about using onyx devices as a monitor, but it's actually the opposite - can we wirelessly mirror the screen to a compatible receiving device (e.g projector or TV)? Ideally using miracast for it's higher flexibility, but Chromecast might be interesting to some as well.

Ps: if any mod sees this, could you add Miracast/Chromecast to the title? I don't seem to be able to edit the title myself.

[sogaiu]

Interested, but don't own appropriate hardware to test

[Question Mark]

I would love such functionality. Much more so than being able to use the device as a second monitor.

I quite frequently tether a tablet to my projector via micro HDMI cable. Might use the projector more if I could somehow tether my ereader to it.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by franzli

Really, no one interested in this?

Interest is high, but your request is for a fail-proof / configuration-less solution, "any classroom I am set".
Which requires hardware to test it.

I am sorry, but I just found a «Google dropped native Miracast support in Android 6 (Marshmallow) and later»...

[franzli]

Well, the fail proof part depends on which type of receiver solution one comes up with - and fail-proof is not what I'm asking for at this point
I have a miracast dongle that I know I can cast to from my Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 which is running Nougat on a lineage os basis (Resurrection Remix). I don't have any device running stock Android 6 to test with, but I know that while my Windows tablet should be able to mirror to the dongle as well, it won't work, so there is an annoying fragmentation.

So I'm not looking for a ready solution at this point, but would be happy to hear
1) if there is an option Cast in the Display submenu of the Android settings on the Max2
and as a possible next step
2) if anyone with any form of miracast/screencast receiving service (Smart TV, Android TV box, I think in principle even other Android devices like tablets/phones might be able to act as a sink/receiver for the cast) could check if their Max2 recognizes those receivers and if it cab successfully connect to them.

I'm well aware that finding out the combinations that actually work is a non-trivial next step, but it would be helpful to know if anyone manages to get that far at least, in order to see if the hardware is in principle available.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by franzli

So I'm not looking for a ready solution at this point, but would be happy to hear
1) if there is an option Cast in the Display submenu of the Android settings on the Max2
and as a possible next step

I checked in the Display settings, but get a very small number of options.

The option of Chromecast looks like a really good one, but it raises a major and anterior question: how come in the Max2 I cannot see the settings to enable a Mobile hotspot?
You should not need any Wi-Fi enabled in the classroom: the device (the tablet) itself should provide it.

No tethering, no mobile hotspot, ethernet dongles were tried unsuccesfully: is Maximillian the Second an introvert?

[franzli]

Originally Posted by mdp

I checked in the Display settings, but get a very small number of options.

The option of Chromecast looks like a really good one, but it raises a major and anterior question: how come in the Max2 I cannot see the settings to enable a Mobile hotspot?
You should not need any Wi-Fi enabled in the classroom: the device (the tablet) itself should provide it.

No tethering, no mobile hotspot, ethernet dongles were tried unsuccesfully: is Maximillian the Second an introvert?

Yes, if I got your point right, that's what I don't like about Chromecast - you seem to need to set up the Chromecast in an existing network first.

The advantage of any miracast-based solution is that the format is based on WiFi direct, so a connection is automatically established between sender and receiver without having to worry about setting passwords etc, you just go ahead and mirror your screen or with windows you can actually also extend your screen like if you were connected by hdmi (albeit a but slower of course).
It's a real shame there is no workable implementation in Linux (that I know of), that's the one area where my Android tablet has a practical advantage to my Linux tablet.

Going back to topic, if the Cast option doesn't even show up in the menu, chances are, they don't have it implemented - real shame! Would be a great feature, especially as they seem to aim at the education market nowadays...

If there are problems with creating a wifi hotspot, this may well be connected, since wifi direct probably relies on some version of setting up an ad-hoc network.

Ps: and thanks for your answer of course! As always, your input is much appreciated!

[mdp]

Originally Posted by franzli

Yes, if I got your point right, that's what I don't like about Chromecast - you seem to need to set up the Chromecast in an existing network first.

But if you created a hotspot on the Max2, could not you connect the Chromecast dongle to that network? I mean, it should: for the dongle there should be no difference.

If the Max2 could create the hotspot, you would be set.

[franzli]

In principle, maybe yes. In terms of practicality that seems to involve a lot of extra steps for setting up the Chromecast, whereas with miracast the receiver offers a wifi direct connection without any need for additional setup. I'm not sure about that, but it might be that WiFi direct also draws a bit less power than creating a full hotspot on the device (admittedly, this I may misremember).
Miracast also won't interrupt any regular WiFi connectivity on the casting device, so if internet access is needed, the casting device, eg the Max2, can remain connected to whatever WiFi it is registered on.

On the other hand, my understanding is that by forming a hotspot from the casting device, eg the Max2, the whole shebang won't have internet access because it cannot simultaneously form a hotspot and be connected to some other network, which would provide internet access. Further, Chromecast also can't seem to be connected to enterprise networks like eduroam which is what most universities I'm concerned with use. So connecting both the casting device and the Chromecast to that possibly available network is a no starter as well (I think Chromecast simply doesn't support the relevant encryptions - even if it did, inputting all the relevant connection data on every use would be a pain in the back).

This is why Chromecast support would be nice and all, but doesn't really seem that practical for use cases where the infrastructure is more complex than a simple home network. Miracast is independent from these considerations. I really don't understand why support is declining for that.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by franzli

In principle, maybe yes. In terms of practicality that seems to involve a lot of extra steps for setting up the Chromecast, [...]
Miracast also won't interrupt any regular WiFi connectivity on the casting device, so if internet access is needed, the casting device, eg the Max2, can remain connected to whatever WiFi it is registered on.

Right, but what about this set-up:
-- you have a main portable mobile Android device (phone) on which you configure a mobile hostspot. You activate it only when needed - it's four taps ("settings", "shortcut to network", "mobile hotspot", "on");
-- on your Max2 you have set that wireless access point - just enable it (potentially, one click);
-- on the Chromecast dongle, you have again set that wireless access point - enable it (I do not know exactly how it works, but).

The phone being connected to the Internet in some way, you should be set, if I have not missed anything.

Unfortunately I do not have a dongle to try it with.

[franzli]

Yes, that could probably work - admittedly, regarding the Chromecast setup I'm also just relying on what I understood about it's workings and limitations, couldn't justify getting one so far given no one could convince me so far that would be useful for my purposes.

I see two potential disadvantages of the scenario you described:
1) reliance on a third device (more complex, more stuff that can go wrong in between and overall probably higher energy usage)
2) internet access on phone would probably have to be via mobile internet, hence potentially more costly (depending on your data plan and intended internet usage of course)

In terms of ease of setup it might beat having to set up connections from fresh every time. Although I suppose if the Chromecast keeps the connection info persistent, it might be possible to get a working projection system with only a hotspot on the sending device - unfortunately not for the Max2 if you can't get the hotspot to work there. Would be interesting to know of Chromecast could be used that way though. I'd still prefer miracast, but this would allow at least some limited flexibility of use for Chromecast, too.

I guess at this point I should formulate my quest for miracast as a feature request to onyx. I wonder if the absence is due to hardware restrictions or whether they just didn't bother to implement it.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by franzli

I see two potential disadvantages of the scenario you described:
1) reliance on a third device (more complex, more stuff that can go wrong in between and overall probably higher energy usage)
2) internet access on phone would probably have to be via mobile internet, hence potentially more costly (depending on your data plan and intended internet usage of course)

For (1), do you have a phone? For (2), the phone is what you would attach to the University's Wi-Fi (if your personal policies allow this).

The system is more complex but, in this case, correct. It is not sur-complicated: you have a source, a destination and a bridging router. It stands.
In this case, there are no odd points of failure - just procedures (e.g.: ensure all devices are charged/charging). Believe me, I am healthily paranoid; I write after experience. Of course, you should also test this practice with your devices well.

The energy inefficiency is already there since you are not using a cable (I do not have the numbers, but).

Originally Posted by franzli

couldn't justify getting one so far given no one could convince me so far that would be useful for my purposes.
[...]
I guess at this point I should formulate my quest for miracast as a feature request to onyx. I wonder if the absence is due to hardware restrictions or whether they just didn't bother to implement it.

I think you should find one and try it first.

As per my other, I am not sure that Miracast is possible from Android 6.0.1 "Marshmallow" on.

[franzli]

Originally Posted by mdp

For (1), do you have a phone? For (2), the phone is what you would attach to the University's Wi-Fi (if your personal policies allow this).

The system is more complex but, in this case, correct. It is not sur-complicated: you have a source, a destination and a bridging router. It stands.
In this case, there are no odd points of failure - just procedures (e.g.: ensure all devices are charged/charging). Believe me, I am healthily paranoid; I write after experience. Of course, you should also test this practice with your devices well.

That's interesting, my impression was that once you set up a hotspot you cannot connect to another network at the same time. Must have been a while since I last tried, though, so might have a look to learn something new!

In terms of energy, I think the point still stands. If the phone gets into the game, there are three devices burning down energy while presenting. In particular for the phone that might be unpractical if you want to keep using it after 6 hours of classes, to take an extreme example.

Instead if I use a connection only between the sender and the receiver, they use up energy, while the phone can happily idle away, so I only need to worry about keeping the sender and receiver devices charged.

Originally Posted by mdp

I think you should find one and try it first.

For curiosity's sake, I agree. It's just that I already have two miracast adapters which I know to work with other devices and no need for an intermediate networking device, so it seems like a "pointless" expense (except from an experimental perspective) to get yet another 30€ (or slightly less) gimmick just to try if it works in more complicated way as well. Of course, if this turns out to be the only workable way for an onyx Max2 or Note device, then it's a matter of how important this use case is. I just think it should ideally be made to work in a less roundabout way if at all possible, and miracast would represent such a possibility.

Originally Posted by mdp

As per my other, I am not sure that Miracast is possible from Android 6.0.1 "Marshmallow" on.

I can positively confirm that miracast works fine on several Android 7.1 Nougat devices (in particular Samsung Note 10.1 2014, Note 4 and Galaxy Tab S, all of them on Resurrection Remix). So the potential is there in the software (I don't think casting was a feature newly introduced for 7?).

[mdp]

Originally Posted by franzli

That's interesting, my impression was that once you set up a hotspot you cannot connect to another network at the same time.

No, it's how I use browsing (and special internet-related features) on the dedicated tablets: phone connects to the Internet, special-purpose devices connect to the phone set as a mobile Wi-Fi hotspot. All in a few taps.

Originally Posted by franzli

In terms of energy, I think the point still stands. [...] if you want to keep using it after 6 hours of classes, to take an extreme example.

Yes ; )
Although, if you need a portable router, that's a pretty comfy solution, isn't it... Your phone is your Swiss IT army knife (your "Jürgen S.").

Originally Posted by franzli

it seems like a "pointless" expense (except from an experimental perspective) to get yet another 30€ (or slightly less) gimmick just to try if it works in more complicated way as well. Of course, if this turns out to be the only workable way for an onyx Max2 or Note device, then it's a matter of how important this use case is. I just think it should ideally be made to work in a less roundabout way if at all possible, and miracast would represent such a possibility.

I confirm the price is what I saw around.

Did you know about MHL, "Mobile High-Definition Link"?
Unfortunately, again the manufacturer knows if it's there or not (and if inexplicit, it's probably not). If you look at the gsmarena.com pages, you can see it is specified in the "Comms > USB" record of the specs.

You should ask Onyx about both Miracast and MHL.
("We just gave you IN, now you want OUT?")